Non-human heroines might possibly be restricted
Norn (NSFW) has announced in their online newsletter that the Norn games that are currently in development cannot be delivered into the hands of their fans without any modifications.
The character settings, situations, and the game title are against regulation, and a lot of problems have popped up.
The developers are trying their best right now to be able to provide a game that the fans want with the minimum amount of modifications.
A lot is happening in the industry right now because of the regulations this time around, but Norn will try their best to make a game that will satisfy their users.
Norn also reports that the various sides are still having negotiations right now, but there is currently a possibility that games featuring non-human heroines (robots, elves, cat girls, vampires etc) may no longer be accepted for sale.
Games featuring Impregnation or having babies may also get the same treatment.
However, Norn staff says that even if something like that happens, they will try their best to do whatever they can to get their games to their fan.
Norn belongs in the CSA.
I guess the push for restrictions on non-human heroines might be to close that loophole to seriously tighten loli restrictions.
If it really happens… I guess stuff like Tsukihime will be down.
Ugh.
Via: Cybele／Nornってどうよ？
June 13th, 2009 at 1:28 am
Those assholes want to ban Sense Off now? What will they stop at?
June 13th, 2009 at 1:42 am
unbelievable, is this the dark days for visual novels now.
June 13th, 2009 at 1:59 am
Wtf, give me my catgirls, catboys and vampires! This is getting ridiculous. I fear for the future.
June 13th, 2009 at 2:02 am
And all this because a couple of pontifical American puritans deem sex to be unacceptable content in games, while turning blind eyes to the dismemberment, blood, murder and gore in the games that they themselves produce?! Attend to your own country’s affairs first, before prying into products being released in other countries!
I also don’t know what to say about the authorities in Japan. They seemed too easy to give in to overseas news broadcasts.
I personally don’t care much about hardcore eroge, but I do hate it when hypocrites make any sort of attempt on censorship and regulation. Next thing these people would want to do is regulate our freedom to think and make ideas.
June 13th, 2009 at 2:19 am
They want to ban pregnancy?….. Über LOL!!!!
June 13th, 2009 at 4:43 am
A Norn game without impregnation…
is not an Norn game at all…
I can see why they are upset
June 13th, 2009 at 5:40 am
Restrictions on non-human heroines!? What the hell.
June 13th, 2009 at 5:59 am
I. Want. My. Robot. Porn.
June 13th, 2009 at 6:09 am
Do not deny me my Saya!!!
June 13th, 2009 at 6:29 am
WTF just when vampire related stories get interesting and fortune arterial clearly took the cake and then suddenly this…. URGH!!! TIS A THING I CANT EVER ACCEPT
June 13th, 2009 at 6:35 am
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
Applies to hentai games too. If you don’t stand up to protect rape and loli stuff, there’s nothing to stop them from going after other themes when they’re finished.
June 13th, 2009 at 6:41 am
I hope they don’t go around banning everything in eroges until there’s nothing left….
June 13th, 2009 at 6:49 am
We clearly must stamp out all forms of heresy. Only humans may dwell under the Emperor’s light.
June 13th, 2009 at 6:53 am
The only reasonable recourse is for us to sing praises to the Lord, and sing as if we are begging him to take us up to heaven!
June 13th, 2009 at 7:06 am
First they banned rape eroges,
I remained silent;
my company doesn’t make rape eroges.
Then they banned non-human heroines in eroges,
I shrugged my shoulders;
non-human heroines are just gimmicks.
Then they banned pregnancy in eroges,
I did not complain;
my renai games don’t have pregnancy.
Then they banned school settings in eroges,
I did not care;
I was too busy setting my company on fire to collect insurance money.
June 13th, 2009 at 7:12 am
Your eroge is already dead.
June 13th, 2009 at 7:47 am
Trying to destroy all possible content in general?
They are going pretty far,we will have only booring stuff in our life.
So expect much more suicides from people.
June 13th, 2009 at 7:49 am
I think that we may be jumping the gun a little bit on this story. The game in question is already available for download through their site, and it’s only the package version that’s being delayed (apparently by a few weeks?) to make some minor modifications to appease the new censorship requirements. I also don’t think the comment about non-human heroines can be taken on its own in this context. Stores and the CSA are worried about a game that seems centered around bestiality (including pregnancy and the like), but that doesn’t means they’re going turn around and ban non-human heroines from all works. (Also, the examples you listed, like elves, vampires, etc., weren’t in the source that I could see…)
In any case, I do think it’s troublesome that stores are getting more skiddish, but I think the conclusions of the post are definitely over-reaching. We can see in a few weeks what sort of modifications end up being needed to appease the “censors”; my guess is that they won’t be all that much in the end. Not that any sort of mandated censorship is “okay”, but yeah…
June 13th, 2009 at 8:15 am
What the FUCK?! And crap like this is why I was against the rape ban despite not liking that stuff… Auugggghhhhh.
June 13th, 2009 at 8:45 am
>relentlessflame
Read 編集後記 for the part about non-human heroines. I used the examples to help understanding what non-human refers to because there was no English equivalent that I could think off to match the term. Also bestiality was not mentioned at all.
I didn’t refer at all to the inugami game, I only translated the 2nd and 3rd sections of the newsletter which are referring to their games in general as opposed to the first section where they talked about the delays for the inugami game. That game wouldn’t have any big problems because it’s still within the window where regulations won’t be fully imposed yet.
The effects of censorship probably can’t be seen in just a few weeks because the time frame for companies to submit early and avoid the stricter regulations is still ongoing and the deadline is not known yet.
June 13th, 2009 at 9:26 am
A lot of the info that’s being passed around is awfully vague, so until there’s some official report or release we can’t really say for sure what will/will not be banned/illegal/etc. From the comments of the blogs and other sources though, it seems that the situation is getting worse. Perhaps an eventual outright ban on all erotic material is possible. I’d say unlikely, but it’s possible.
June 13th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Nooooo!!! No more elven hentai?? This is getting worse and worse… ><
June 13th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Dark Age of visual novel has come, now who will be the hero of this age?
June 13th, 2009 at 10:18 am
Nihon owata \(^o^)/
June 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
thank you self rightous america.
thank you for showing us the wrongs in us all.
thank you for telling us how to live our lives.
thank you for shoving your cultural rights and wrong down our throats.
thank you for showing to us that having a cultural differences is wrong.
thank you.
and ppl wonder why there are people who don’t like americans.
June 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
this is like the second coming of the black ships.
wonder who’s gonna be the next commodore matthew perry.
June 13th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I can understand why japanese are so xenophobic now.
June 13th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Zepy: I did catch read the bit in the bottom message where they refer to the non-human heroines, but this is still all in reaction to the changing face of censorship regarding their current and in-progress works. Just because they made that comment, we don’t know the whole context of what would be restricted or what the boundaries would be. (Nor can we assume that the creators aren’t possibly overstating it a bit in order to provoke more negative fan reaction.) Simply imagining that they might restrict the sale of all games that contain “non-human” heroines (and that the writers won’t find ways around this, as they have with past restrictions) is pretty extreme thinking. And even in the context of those posts, “sale” only means “for sale in stores”, not for sale online; if this whole thing goes too far in the opposite direction, forcing companies and the market to redirect their efforts towards online, we’ll see some pushes in the opposite direction as things impact the bottom line.
I guess all I’m trying to say is “let’s see what comes of this”. This whole situation has leant itself to a lot of extreme “what ifs”, and things being re-posted around the Net as fact when it’s still very much in the tentative stage (granted you did say “might possibly be” and not “will”). At this point, I still have my doubts about how much true industry change will result from all this.
June 13th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
The increase of censorship in Japan has been an on going process. Remember Misshitsu?
June 13th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
At this rate they might as well just ban eroge or anything the like at all.
June 13th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
>relentlessflame
>pretty extreme thinking
I haven’t actually stated my opinion on the matter, I think. It’s just Norn saying there is a possibility that these types of games can no longer be sold in stores in the future, and that all their current in-development games (including a game about goddesses and another game about elves) cannot be delivered to fans in their current unmodified state. Whatever you want to think of it would be up to you.
June 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Well, Zepy, what is your opinion on this matter, then?
June 13th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
That’s a secret protected by the FBI who are trying to censor the world and create a new world dominated by uncensored polar bears.
June 13th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
But *why* would games featuring non-human heroines (robots, elves, cat girls, vampires etc) no longer be accepted for sale? How does that bridge the gap towards restricting loli characters?
June 13th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I, For one, welcome our future of boring, straight sex visual novels
June 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Narumi: Becaus untill today, furrys (cat girls), vampires, elves and such has not been classifide as “human” and thus it is easy to bypass by creating a loli cat girl and saying that she is not human and therefore don’t count as underage. Hybrid girls are also is a form of bestiallity that is forbidden in eroge, but bypassed since they are not 100% animal. The new law wants to change this so there will be no missconceptions that the character in the game is 100% human and not underaged.
June 13th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
>That’s a secret protected by the FBI
LOL. I get it, Zepy.
>Narumi
Maybe they want prevent “non-human” that look like lolis.
“Well, your honor, I know she look like a little girl, BUT she is actually a vampire/robot/youkai who’s about 495 years old.”
June 13th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Look at the bright side though!
At least we still have fanfiction!
June 13th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Maybe they want prevent “non-human” that look like lolis.
“Well, your honor, I know she look like a little girl, BUT she is actually a vampire/robot/youkai who’s about 495 years old.”
Basically nuking the bed to kill the cockroach?
This whole situation is kind of ridiculous…
June 13th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
It goes to show you that once Visual Novels are targeted it’ll be the end of us all. From what I can see from this would be the animal eared fans will prety much RAGE over this if it actually happens. Although if this is for the sake of keeping lolis off of Visual Novels then you’re pretty much killing the reason for Visual novels. I mean each game must have at least one token loli.
June 13th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
I was also thinking the same thing about the “throwing the bed out with the bathwater” analogy re: non-human characters and “lolicon”. If this really were all about the loli issue, then they could just change the way the restriction is worded to make it clear that there’s some new subjective standard the rating board will apply to determine if the character “looks” underage. Eliminating “non-humans” from the equation for *that* reason makes no sense, because that’s only one possible way someone could skirt the rules. They could also simply say that it’s some sort of genetic defect, or that it’s some sort of magic, or who knows… (which is the same as the whole non-human thing — “oh, it’s just cosplay!”) This is why I agree: banning non-human heroines to remove the “loli loophole” doesn’t make sense. That’s just another of the reasons I think there’s definitely more to the story. We’ll see.
June 13th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Relentlessflame,
It doesn’t have to make sense. These are ad hoc rules are made by non governmental or semi governmental groups make the stores selling these stuff happy. The stores don’t want to end up on the chopping block because they were selling something “obscene”.
I know its insane, but if think about the situation before shit hit the fan, its was kind of crazy too: “Here’s a cartoon picture of a loli being gangraped, lets cover up the p0n0s and vag000 with thin black bars. It’s not obscene anymore.”
June 13th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Granted, but even in the “un-logic” there’s a certain logic. Who’s really crying out against this particular thing? All the rest, there’s a sort of “paper trail”. The private parts bit is general obscenity laws. The loli part is child-rights laws/advocates. The rape is womens-rights laws/advocates. The best I could come up with for the “non-human” bit is *maybe* animal rights/bestiality laws, somewhat? Since CSA is a group representing the makers, they have to at least come up with some sort of line about “why this is so bad” and “what we need to do to fix it”. As a temporary measure they may be taking all sorts of over-reaching preventative steps, but eventually the real issue will be put on the table. Who’s calling for this, and why? Zepy speculated that it might have something to do with loli, and that’s one reasonable possibility, but even then the two would more likely be connected somehow?
In any event, in all this logic and “un-logic”, we can find the loophole. When the issue was “can’t show private parts!”, they “invented” mosiac and black bars. When the issue was “can’t show underaged girls”, they invented “They’re 18, Really (TM)”. And now if the issue really is “can’t depict ‘non-human’ characters”, it’ll just be “They’re 100% Genuine Human, Really (TM)”. So if we believe in the pattern of “un-logic” we’ve followed to get here so far, we can still say that the industry is probably going to find a way around this, if it comes to pass. And as I said before, if the stores go too crazy with laws and restrictions, there’s always the Internet. This particular restriction, if it were as broadly-implemented as originally implied, would block a number of last year’s top-selling games.
Anyway, I’m still skeptical. We’ll see.
June 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
this shit makes no sense to me. I thought they want to ban Rape games, and now they ban elve girls and so on?
I can’t seem to find the logic in all this at the moment. do they want to ban loli now too? will all rape be banned not only in games but in doujin but in everything that is hentai?
I am confused as hell.
June 13th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
The Rapelay shitstorm was simply an effective way for the anti pornography groups to bring attention and support to a law that’s been moving along in the Japanese Diet.
This law has the aim of criminalizing the possession of real child pornography. However, attached to this law is to form a study group on criminalizing *fictional* child pornography.
Read more on this here:
http://www.translativearts.com/log20080812special_ej.html
Well, that’s my crackpot theory on why everyone is running with their heads cut off.
June 13th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
You know even as an American I hate myself for this shit, its gotten so bad here that we have to force other countries to do what we say. I grow tired of this country, whos up for Chinese dominance over the US?
June 13th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
> Read more on this here:
> http://www.translativearts.com/log20080812special_ej.html
Very informative. I didn’t know that savemanga.com was active again, and soliciting foreign petition support as well:
http://www.savemanga.com/2008/08/petition-against-rules-of-manga-and.html
June 14th, 2009 at 2:22 am
just remove the H parts, and Tsukihime will survive, am i right?
type-moon’s stories are just good enough, they don’t even need H-scenes to make their products successful
June 14th, 2009 at 2:47 am
Type-Moon might be able to pull it off. Key did with Little Busters before Extasy or Clannad before After Story. But, they are exception to the norm in the business. Most companies can’t sell like that.
June 14th, 2009 at 2:51 am
I wouldn’t give in to these demands, since when dealing with people like this you can’t budge an inch or they’re just push you till you fall over the edge. I find it surprising, that a market this large doesn’t have lobbyists of their own to keep them safe.
I mean, these companies make good money… they fuckin practically OWN districts in large cities throughout Japan, and they can’t spare some cash to bribe their congresscritters? Maybe they didn’t pay their protection money?
On another note:
If this is simply attacking the distributors, then it wouldn’t be too difficult to just go pure digital distro and be done with it.
June 14th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Zepy, thank you for translating, collecting, and covering so much related to this issue. Few other sources of information on the net would do so without uninformed and childish commentary. So, once again, thank you.
June 14th, 2009 at 5:05 am
Etherlite: GTFO, Fate without naked Rin would be shit!
June 14th, 2009 at 7:13 am
@anon: lol, you could get lots of those on doujinshi
June 14th, 2009 at 10:42 am
@Etherlite: doujinshi != canon. they shouldn’t censor game creators’ freedom, it’s their choice what they want to put in their own creations. also, sex makes a large part of type-moon’s storylines, especially in tsukihime, where it’s a pivotal story point in many cases, e.g. kohaku, makihisa, SHIKI & crazy shiki.
also, i think this is completely overblown. there aren’t any rules as such, only policies by certain games associations; it’s easy to get out of these. tsukihime and type-moon won’t be affected even in the slightest.
June 14th, 2009 at 11:09 am
“tsukihime and type-moon won’t be affected even in the slightest.”
Not by this, no, but if things continue to go downhill like that, it won’t be long until they are.
June 14th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
On 06/10/09, Black Package’s “Hara-puri” has been renamed to “Nuru-puri”.
June 14th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Hi!
My first visit.
Also sending anime blog.
Already listed up your site in my Blogroll List.
If mutual link is OK, I’m happy.
By sazusa on Jun 15, 2009 from Japan
June 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
@johnny: it play some part in the story, but it doesn’t need to be explicitly shown, i’m sure nasu kinoko’s brilliant mind could easily overcome that
i agree with you anyway, they probably want to ban non-human characters because they saw the likes of kanokon and norm’s games with succubi which are hardcore, in other eroges where sex is not the main attraction, banning them will cause limiting of creativity, their games will get boring and this ensures their fall
June 14th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
GODDAMN FEMINAZIS RUINING MY FUNTIME. VENGEANCE WILL SOON BE AT HAND!
June 14th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
all this restriction is made into effect so that pathetic people like you guys can contribute something to the society
June 15th, 2009 at 12:34 am
These catholic bigots must die in the hell. I hate them all.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:53 am
(Re: last 3 comments here)
Oh geez. Can’t we keep things civil and keep the internet drama to a minimum? I know we’re all a bunch of social misfits and thus it’s nearly impossible to get along, but in the end we’re all in the same boat here.
June 15th, 2009 at 7:07 am
And thus the “night” in me should not be emptiness… Even in the darkness, God is there, making us stronger - ONLY IF WE BELIEVE. I still believe that You CAN change this darkness into light, Lord. As You have said, I pray, “Take this cup away from me, but if it is Your will, let it be done.
Be still the torment of the night
Will not encumber you, if you believe
My child this darkness isn’t emptiness
For here I mold your heart
Unto My image painfully you long to see
The self you yearn to be, but fear to know
The world from which you flee in Me find home
All these I give you, if you remain in Me
June 15th, 2009 at 7:30 am
@anon who posted at June 14th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
you have no idea what the local (japanese) community has been doing for society, sure we may look like doing nothing for society cause we cant WE ARE POWERLESS to contribute to society DUE TO THE BANS to begin with thus explains why we dig the underground world
June 15th, 2009 at 7:51 am
After reading some of the recent posts by the commenters here, I think Japan should temporarily ban eroge.
Scientists need to study whether or not playing eroge causes severe mental retardation or insanity.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
This is just like Perry opened Japan’s ports, only backwards and about eroge instead of trading.
All joking aside, I think relentlessflame wins the “In the end, things may not change as much as we think” award thanks to the magic of the “un-logic” argument. I also think we won’t see much changes in actual content, in most cases. The most significant changes will come for the most extreme games, like “Rapelay”. The rest will see next to no significant changes… Thanks, of course, to more magical (un)logical loopholes.
For the most part, I don’t think they’re banning non-human characters. I think that if anything is done on this subject, it will be to impose more self-regulations that don’t quite ban them, but limit the way they’re presented.
But banning pregnancy sounds like a load of crap. I mean, unprotected sex has consequences! That one makes no sense at all.
June 15th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I want to see all your dumbfounded optimist faces when the full effects of all the regulations (some of which you don’t even know about yet) strike within the next few months. The amount of rage throughout the internet and beyond will be epic. Even dumb fucktards like anon@June-14th-11:15pm and anon@June-15th-7:51am will choke on their shitty sarcasm.
June 15th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
@serial
yeah it does make no sense banning pregnancy genre in eroge i mean i look at it as part of their answer through literary style in one of Japan’s major problems which is declining birth rate…. it figures out
June 15th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
this may interest you zepy
http://www.new-akiba.com/archives/2009/06/post_18857.html
June 16th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Basically, all eroge’s character are non-human right? They are 2D, just a paper, not human. Am I right?
June 17th, 2009 at 3:56 am
> # Anon Says:
> June 15th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
>
> this may interest you zepy
> http://www.new-akiba.com/archives/2009/06/post_18857.html
Whoa whoa whoa, my Japanese certainly isn’t great, so I really hope I’m reading it wrong, but is that link saying that even high school / academy situations may be further restricted too?
June 17th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Oh, yeah, I didn’t post about that because it seems to be a demand from some outside organization that doesn’t have the power to directly affect the industry.
June 17th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Me with my non-human lolis. In hell. Tonight.
June 17th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Seriously, illegally download as much as you can during the next months and save it all on each of two identical sets of external harddrives (so that if one breaks, you still have all data on the other).
Sad for the developers. First we can’t import their goods, now they can’t even distribute them anymore.
Seems like illegally downloading that stuff is the only legal method left available. And god knows for how long.
There might be now tomorrow. Uploading can quickly become a crime, too. Where to download from, then?
I believe it was Jesus (or some other wise man) who said:
“The Internet will be going down the same day they touch the porn.”
The future doesn’t look bright, but you can save a small light! Everyone can! Organize yourself with others in your area, find out who’s into what and let every one of them download as much as possible of their genre. In the future, art will become again what it once was: a cultural niche only available to a select few. You can do your part to prevent that! Because there’s one fallacy in their thinking: Digital data can be copied effortlessly!! We don’t need any internet to download stuff if we can just knock at the neighbor’s door and copy it from his harddrive to ours!!! With everyone sharing his stuff, soon chains will develop which will intersect and weave a new kind of internet!!!
Oh, and while you’re at it: Buy yourself a few netbooks or smaller devices with USB ports, ones which don’t use much power and can be connected to small solar panels to charge their batteries. And buy lots of spare batteries. And solar panel devices!
WE DO NOT DEPEND ON YOU, YOU HEAR IT? GO SHUT THE INTERNET DOWN WE WILL LONG BE SELF-SUFFICIENT BEFORE YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT!!!!
June 17th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
>Zepy: Oh, yeah, I didn’t post about that because it seems to be a demand from some outside organization that doesn’t have the power to directly affect the industry.
I think you’re probably right, but on the other hand those sorts of demands are what started this whole mess in the first place.
>Anonymous: downloading that stuff is the only legal method left available. And god knows for how long.
If you feel like feeding your fears some more, then: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-06-17/japan-strengthens-copyright-laws-for-downloading
June 18th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
I agree with Anonymous from two posts up. Download as much as you can now, and share for as long as you can. While I won’t go as far as saying go to your neighbor to share, we definitely need to keep these games on P2P networks. Use VPN, use Share, use Perfect Dark. Just keep yourself hidden and keep sharing.
June 21st, 2009 at 6:26 pm
First they ban loli, then rape, and now this!?
Damn, someone should form a group to oppose those feminists. They can’t always have it their way!
June 21st, 2009 at 6:53 pm
They can ban these, but soon there will be a howl of protest coming in the form of doujinsoft (doujin games)
YOUR RESISTANCE ONLY MAKES MY PENIS HARDER!
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Forgive me if I don’t understand, but if this EOCS group is being so restrictive, why don’t these companies just leave the EOCS? These trade groups only have as much power as their members give them, if enough big companies leave them they’ll lose their power over them.
Is there something I’m missing? Is it a legal requirement to get a game rated by the EOCS before release?
June 23rd, 2009 at 12:28 am
How naive you are, KiTA.
Back in the early 20th century some damn fool tried to ban comic books. Congress almost acted on his complaint. Instead, the comic book industry told Congress they would “self-regulate”. All comic book publishers were bound to join the regulation group (which had various discriminatory and stupid rules) or else Congress would get on their backs again.
The movie industry followed suit with the MPAA ratings system, and then the video game industry did the same with whatever the “T for Teen” system is called.
Japan copied the U.S. in using this system because we are the best at everything, durrr.
Basically if they drop out of the self-regulation shit will go down.
July 4th, 2009 at 9:49 am
What now? Ban fantasy genre books? It may also be a goodbye for Type-Moon D: